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Greetings, Willem!:> WOW!!!~ I imagine it would be safe to say that:"There are USA- Hyderabad Asils and then there are 'THE' HYDERABAD ASEELS!!!" And perhaps, as you say:"The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names"~ may well be aptly applied in this particular case!:>
Here is a photograph of a bird I purchased (years ago) from an Asil Club member, who thusly, as the seller... labeled him as~ 'Hyderabad' Asil!
Warmest regards, friend Willem and my you have a most productive New Year!!!!!:>
CyberDave
"The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand, and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand." - Vince Lombardi
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Posts: 512
The problem is USA aseel, we can only call how aseel what we have been told they are,i know the man very well who Dr dave got he's hyderabad asil off, and Dr nassem brought some of the best aseels and shamos in to the UK back in the late 80-90,he also sold some of these aseel to gamefowl breeder's all over the world, it's like my Cyprus line aseel there really hint asil with a touch of south Indian aseel blood, but if i sold you some as south Indian aseel, what would you call them asil USA if i did not tell you about them having hint asil blood in them?,
Always be true to yourself
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Posts: 512
Post last edited Dec 31st 2016
Always be true to yourself
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Posts: 512
The biggest problem we gamefowl breeder's had back in the 80 and early 90,was that we had to take the word of the breeder we were getting how game birds off when they come from other country's, unless you went to that country your self and for some of us that was impossible,
Always be true to yourself
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Posts: 512
Always be true to yourself
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Posts: 1108
Asil USA - Posted 2 Hours Ago
It happens now too.its sad.because of these experiments and try to make line and stuff you don't know what in them in this country.lol..I feel bad for the people who buy these birds and they try to resell for someone else.so it's keep on going..Have a Happy New year friend..
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Greetings, 'Asil USA!:> I'd like to finish off the 2016 year_ with a 'heartfelt' Thank You!:> sent your way...for your continued participation, in posting your thoughts and ideas~ for our beloved Asil Club! * I can't help but think; that Smithy's signature of ("Always be true to yourself")~suits you 'QUITE WELL'!:>
HAPPY NEW YEAR AND GOD BLESS YOU, MY FRIEND!:>
CyberDave
"The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand, and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand." - Vince Lombardi
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Moderator
Posts: 1298
Friend Asil USA, did you read my comment about that white bird ? Did I say it was a Hyderabadi bird ? I did not ! This is what I wrote....This is a bird not directly from Hyderabad but from the same region (source Anjaneyulu Dakarapu from Andhra Pradesh state). So why that comment ? I think I was clear enough. Thank you.
The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names
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its your birds, time and money. so breed how you see fit, and call them what you like. There's no copyright infringement. lol
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All size and all types of Asils are found in Hyderabad. Agree some of the larger ones are the toughest and strongest aseel found anywhere in the world. Hyderabad is part of sindh about 260 Square kilometers of mostly mountainous rural areas with close to 4 million population. A aseel from Hayderabad is called Hayderabad Aseel !!!! A aseel from Hayderabad is called Hayderabad Aseel because it was born in Hayderabad or its ancestors are from Hayderabad. Hope this will make you understand. I will be visiting Hyderabad from 02/15/17 thru 03/15/17. I bet when Hyderabad Aseel was brought to USA they had brought the smaller and faster asil with steel game in mind. Thanks for your perusal???
Post last edited Dec 31st 2016
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Greetings, to my dear friend-Shah!:> Thanks for adding a much needed (voice of experience and honesty)~in saying 'goodbye' to 2016! Many years, of 'pure' joy and excitement, (in owning 'top-shelf' gamefowl birds)!:> were made possible because of you!
Warmest regards and the best of the BEST for you and your family, in 2017!!!!
CyberDave
"The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand, and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand." - Vince Lombardi
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Moderator
Posts: 1298
Asil USA thanks for clearing up things regarding that white Asil from Andhra Pradesh. Regarding the question small Asils in Hyderabad I am with friend Asil USA regarding his statement that when people speak about Hyderabad Asil the large Asil we know as Kulang-type are meant. Are there small Asil in Hyderabad ? Yes there are. But believe me in the past certain types of Asil were only found in specific regions, the Reza-type Asils were predominantly found in the north of India (including Pakistan and Bangladesh). The south of India always has been known for the big Asils. Nowadays things have changed in the Indian subcontinent. Some populations of fowl especially in remote regions were only found in these regions. In the past when transportation was limited to transport by foot, horse, donkey or camel there was no extensive trade in birds. This also due the fact that people were sticking to their traditions regarding specific fighting styles and types of fowl. After the introduction of trains, motorvehicles, steamers and airplanes in India even the most remote regions were easy to reach. Trading became much easier. And nowadays also in India styles have changed and with this the types of fowl too.
The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names
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Asil USA - Posted 17 Hours Ago
Lol Shah i don't know wether you know this,Hyderabad asils are known for kulang type asil..tamilnadu is a bigger state and they known for madrass asils they also kulang type asil..because a small reza type asil born in Hyderabad you can't call them they are Hyderabad or a reza type born in tamilnadu can you can you call them Madras asils?so you saying if a reza born in Iran ,are they become lari asil?
You are missing the point that Shah is trying to make.
The last time I was in Cambodia I brought back some watermelon seeds from there. I call them 'Cambodian watermelons' because that is where I got the seeds. That is a normal way for Americans to name things. We do that all the time and always have.
We know that Games originally came to Britian from Phoenicia. But what do we call them? Old English Games. Are we incorrect? Not in the least. People understand what we mean.
Dr Dave has had those birds for at least 20 years now. Most familiar with Asils in the States understands what is meant by the name.
The fact of the matter is the name on any Asil is meaningless; it's all about performance. If it can't do what it's suppose to do then the name doesn't matter.
Generally speaking, in the USA (provided the person isn't lying), names such as Pakistani, Hyderabad, or Bombay tell the buyer which 'family' of fowl they are purchasing which tells the buyer which breeder they originated with. Of course, all that assumes honesty.
Post last edited Jan 1st 2017
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CLARIFICATION: Hydearabad City Is part of Andhra Pradesh India. There is also a City called Hyderabad in the Pakistan State of SINDH. Pakistan State of Sindh borders Indian State of Rajaasthan . As I mentioned before Dr Mohammed Naseem was born in Amristar ( Indian Punjab) but migrated to Lahore ( Pakistan Punjab). More than likely Dr Naseem got his Aseels from the Pakistan City of Hyderabad in the State of Sindh. On a personal note deceased Dr Naseem did not much care for this Hyderabadi Aseel as they were too slow, I know this as I visited with him in Birmingham UK in 1978 on way to Bombay India.
Black Indian Aseel imported from Bombay India
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Indian Rajah wrote:
More than likely Dr Naseem got his Aseels from the Pakistan City of Hyderabad in the State of Sindh
That was always my understanding. Curt would know for certain though.
Post last edited Jan 1st 2017
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I believe so that the Hayderabad Asil were infact from hayderabad, Pakistan. The birds were bigger and tougher during the time of import. People kept on inbreeding to keep them pure which infact affected their size and strength of the bird. Inbreeding compresses the bird. Only very few of us understood the impact of inbreeding by than it was getting late and the damage was visible. On the other hand outbreeding and hybridation increases the strength and size of birds. A reverse process is very difficult to get their original appearance and strength, will get varied results, can be close but never same. I made mistakes and learned from my mistakes
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The Hyderabads that I have throw chicks all over the place. Cocks as large as 7 lbs and as small as 4 1/2. I always figured it was the Reynolds' Pakistani blood that caused the smaller ones, but Shah could very well be correct in that inbreeding depression is the problem.
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FYI Regarding Dr Naseem (from Birmingham), I talked to him myself on the phone end of the 1990's ofcourse regarding the Asils. He has send an interesting letter to the editor of the Oriental Gamefowl Club International (an international gamefowl club based in Belgium) to be published in the club's 1988 yearbook. PS in his last years Dr.Naseem turned away from the Asils and focussed on the Taiwan and big Shamo's as these were very much in demand by UK cockers at that time. He was also robbed of his birds many times.
Post last edited Jan 8th 2017
The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names
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Posts: 1108
Greetings, Willem!:>
As I've mentioned before..."Thank You"!...for always being there for ALL of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:>
CyberDave
"The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand, and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand." - Vince Lombardi
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Posts: 36
This talk of size brings something to mind I wanted to share. Last year I had a pullet come out significantly smaller than usual. When breeding the cock back to that daughter, she produced a similar stag. He is atleast a full lb smaller than any cock I have produced yet at 7 months old... Pretty cool and unusual
 
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I knew Dr naseem and he was also good friends with some of my friends to, the Dr brought some of the very best aseels to have come to UK in the 80s and early 90s,but after he got good Japanese shamo and Taiwans from main land Europe,and he seen how they performed when matched against he's aseels, he moved away from the aseels to constraint on the Jap shamo and Taiwan, he made many crosses of different aseel strains with Japanese shamo and Taiwan, but he would sale a cross as a pure aseel ore pure Jap shamo, ore pure Taiwan, Dr naseem only ever let he's pure aseel and shamo and Taiwan go to close friends and breeder's from outside of the UK, the Dr as most of us who knew him called him was a very good aseel breeder and trainer and he's record in the UK pits back that up, but he's biggest winner's were the silver back line shamo and there cross's with aseel, but until he brought the Japanese shamo and Taiwan over to the UK he's aseels were the best naked heel fighter in the UK pits, it was only when he came up against the odd man who had shamo ore Taiwan that he had a hard matche with he's aseels as i remember apart that not many UK cockers gave him any problems, im sorry to have gone off topic but i just thought I'd tell you bit about Dr naseem, it was a very sad end to Dr naseem aseel and oriental breeding and fighting days , as not only was he robbed a few times but it was after one of these robberys that he lost he's son under tragic circumstances, and Dr naseem was never the same man again and he also never keep aseel ore any gamefowl at all again.
Post last edited Jan 10th 2017
Always be true to yourself
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